1) 2019, JAN. 22, INSTAGRAM VIDEO transcribed. It's a short conversation between SUKI EWERS and JILL EMERY, both veteran band members of Mazzy Star, one current, one former.
2) 2021, OCT. 14 - Transcription of a you tube video interview with Mazzy Star bass player JILL EMERY by Tanya Pearson
3) 2022, FEB. 7 - Transcription of a you tube video interview with Mazzy Star bass player JILL EMERY, by Mikayla Beyer
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2019, JAN. 22, INSTAGRAM VIDEO transcribed. It's a short conversation between SUKI EWERS and JILL EMERY, both veteran band members of Mazzy Star, one current, one former. It was posted to Jill Emery's Instagram page on Jan. 22, 2019
Here's a transcript I made from the unusual short VIDEO of SUKI EWERS, a current Mazzy Star member and JILL EMERY,a former band member, chatting together about Mazzy Star's then upcoming L.A. shows, and their days together in Mazzy Star in the 1990s. In the video, SUKI's on the left. She is Mazzy Star's (and was Opal's) long time keyboards and second guitar player. JILL EMERY toured as Mazzy Star's bass player in 1993-1994 and 1996 and played bass on their 1996 Among My Swan album. She played bass on one song on Hope's 2001 "Bavarian Fruit Bread" album. She also played in Courtney Love's band Hole. Jill was a visual artist in the 1990s and is one today. The two are chatting at an art show of Jill's paintings.
This short video is a rarity, as it's the closest thing I know of of a Suki interview interview.
Even though Suki did a radio studio appearance with her own band in 2007, I think (a recording of which is findable in the boots list thread at this site), the radio host didn't interview her beyond asking her if his pronunciation of her surname as "Yoo-wers" was correct. She said yes. Except I've heard Hope in an interview pronounce Suki's name as EE-wers, which is no doubt correct. When Suki said "yes" to "Yoo-wers" she probably meant "close enough," rather than "you nailed it!"
Here's a link to the video at Jill Emery's Instagram page.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs8lOwcFU2H ... 5blWSliE3A
Her Instagram name is sallygotsthe. There are actually 3 videos strung together in the one post. Once one clip is finished, click the arrow on its right side to start the next video.
Thanks go to Facebook fan Group member Menghan Wang who found Jill's Instagram page and this video posted there, and tipped me off to it. Menghan and I decided we should ask Jill's permission first before posting a link to her video at fan groups. So, I asked her via an IG message and was pleased to receive her reply: "Sounds cool thanks." Thank you Jill.
Here's a screenshot of the two I made from the video. Suki's on the left.
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TRANSCRIPT
JILL: What, what are you doin'? What are you playing?
SUKI: Huh? What? I play keyboards
JILL: Keyboards
SUKI: You know
JILL: She's playing keyboards with Mazzy Star, coming up soon
SUKI: Right
JILL: Where at?
SUKI: Uh, at, it's called The Cathedral, or The Sanctuary at The Cathedral, or something
JILL: Yeah, she's-
SUKI: Somewhere downtown
JILL: This is how we met
SUKI: That's how we met
JILL: We, we got, we were on tour
SUKI: We played music together
JILL: And we got thrown into a room together. We didn't know each other. And we, it was quiet, and we're like this [hunches her shoulders and looks downward]. And then we started doin' a Carpenters song
SUKI: Yeah, we started playing a Carpenters song, yeah
JILL: And then we-, yeah it worked out good
SUKI: But then we would also, like, paint on the tour bus
JILL: We, we did all kinds of stuff. Yeah, we did, creative.
SUKI: We did a lot of stuff, fun stuff
JILL: Yeah, we weren't really drunk or anything. Except you are now.
SUKI: (laughs)
JILL: But anyway, getting back to that stuff [she points towards her paintings on the wall as
she's about to start interpreting some of them for attendees present at the art show]
SUKI: Okay, back to the art
[Jill starts talking about specific paintings for her art show audience]
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2021, OCTOBER, 14, Interview with JILL EMERY with Tanya Pearson
Transcription from the video recording. I've just transcribed 8 minutes worth of video which includes all the Mazzy Star and Hope Sandoval content from a much longer (98 min.) interview .
On my yt channel I've uploaded my own 8 minute edit of the video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6spGjYo ... JLN4AaABAg
The full 98 min. long, life and career-spanning interview is on you tube, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iCzTGUIcAo
Mazzy Star bass player JILL EMERY VIDEO INTERVIEW by Tanya Pearson of the Women of Rock Oral History Project, recorded Oct.14, 2021. The interview was apparently not shared via you tube till Sept. 2022, nearly a year after it was recorded.
JILL JOINED MAZZY STAR as their touring bass player in late 1993 and continued with them through the end of their 1994 tour. She also toured as a band member in 1996-97. She played bass on the Among My Swan Mazzy Star album (released 1996), and on Hope Sandoval & The Warm Inventions' album Bavarian Fruit Bread (released 2001) on just one song, Bavarian Fruit Bread.
Jill played in many bands. The best known ones are Mazzy Star and Hole.
I learned about this interview from Jill's Instagram post, here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Ci-Vw3Iro2y/
Below is text of just the 8 minutes of the interview where Jill speaks about her time with Mazzy Star, and speaks about working with Hope on putting together Hope's own band project that would eventually evolve into The Warm Inventions. Jill says she and Hope wrote some songs together which never ended up on a record.
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INTERVIEWER (Tanya Pearson): how often did you have to work other jobs to supplement your income and was was there ever a time when you just were able to make a living being in a band?
JILL: Um yeah, I basically, I think with Hole I just had like these odd jobs you know,
just making jewelry and whatever work... but then in Mazzy Star I didn't work for you know for I think a couple years
INTERVIEWER: Yeah, um yeah, I do want to talk about how did you join Mazzy Star? What album was that because, were they big yet? It was 90-?.
JILL: Yeah, I think Fade Into You had just probably come out and I toured on that record which was, um, oh my God, what was the name of the record?
INTERVIEWER: I know, I forget
JILL: Anyway it's okay
INTERVIEWER: Everyone will know, yeah
JILL: Yeah, it's a good record so-
But, okay first of all let me tell you the story. It all started in Boston, okay?
So we were, Hole was in Boston playing a show. We slept at this girl's house who was wonderful, and she turned me on to Mazzy Star. I didn't know them. I'm like, dude this is great I love it. And so I go, can you make a tape so we can listen to it in the van? And it was I think She Hangs Brightly record. It wasn't their other one. So, I just would play it over and over. So after, then all said and done I was out of Hole I put out an ad in The Recycler, and I said: "Bassist looking to start a band."
Um, okay, this is pretty funny uh- "influences: Marianne Faithful...Mazzy Star, and Black Sabbath". And like, Mazzy Star calls me, and I'm like, what? They're like, hey you want to come down and you know jam a bit I'm like, yeah, I'll be there. And of course he had a great Studio ,I mean, they, you know, David, he was an archivist with instruments, and he just had it, you know? And I remember thinking, wow this is, I can't believe I'm playing these songs that I love. And you know, I'm not great, I'm a slow learner but once I get it I'm on it, you know? So that was really cool, and and then they- I didn't hear back.
And I remember Hope tells the story, "oh yeah you said 'can I take off my shoes?'". And I was like, I don't remember that and and she's like: "and we all just laughed". Because they were very, like, quiet and nothing, you know? It was opposite of Hole But um, so after that I didn't hear from them maybe for a couple weeks, and then they called me and said "hey we're playing this show with Red House Painters". And it was just a club, and they're like "you want to play?" And I'm like "I don't think I know the songs that well". And they're like "just come and play". I'm like "okay but I'm gonna be staring at your hands to see chord changes", you know? And I played the show. And then from there on, you know, I went on tour with them for that record and they paid me, you know, I was a hired musician. So I didn't get royalties - but you know, I didn't play on the record - for writing the songs.
So then we toured and it was great. And another musician maybe you could interview would be Suki. She was in Opal and Mazzy Star, and she's nice. So, her and I were rooming together at the time and we got to know each other. And she was very quiet. I'm like what the hell, I'm in this room with this chick that's not talking, and you know, I can't stop talking. So then we started, like, playing guitar in the room, and we did a Carpenter's song.
And we became friends. And then later, I guess Suki wasn't in the band, and I can't remember why that happened. And then I guess they got someone else to play guitar, and we were on tour.
And then luckily they gave me my own room which was great because I like being alone you know.
And so that kind of...that's how that all went.
And you know, they were they were nice. I mean there was, you know, there was obviously turbulence in that too, but not with me. I mean there was just stress, like Hope was very private and stressed,
and David was super private, but you know, nice people.
She was great. I mean we we became friends after while and I tried to, um, we were going to write together
and I wrote a couple songs and she put the lyrics to them and sounded great but we didn't have the musicians
It was just me and her. So she flew us out to London and we stayed out there for about a month looking for musicians and it was a little up and down. And then I flew up to Berkeley that's where she lived at the time.
Um, stayed at her house, and looked for musicians there, and in LA, but it was hard.
And then we got musicians, and it just -
We recorded maybe a little bit but you know 'cause she was, you know, when you're the singer-songwriter
you're good with money when you're selling records, right? You don't need to worry.
She had a beautiful home. She was so kind and giving though. She was very good to me. You don't have deadlines of money, you know. And she was paying me but when time was off I had a mortgage. I'm like, "dude I can't wait around." She's like, "oh I don't know". And so then after while I just kind of walked and said
I can't do this anymore, I have to-
that's when I got my job at Whole Foods. And then they called me to go back up to record more after while, but it just wasn't- something wasn't clicking.
And as I left, she was very kind to give me a few thousand dollars in good faith, 'cause she had already been paying me. But you know she's just like, "what happened?", and I'm like "I can't, I have to be steady".
And I'm the type that's working. A lot of times I had two bands: my own band and these bands.
Same while I was in Hole. I was in Shadow Project, my own band. Same with Mazzy Star, I had my own band. And I'm a worker, I work all the time. I paint all the time, you know. That's just how it is.
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2022, Feb. 7 - Transcription of a you tube video interview with Mazzy Star bass player JILL EMERY, by Mikayla Beyer re. her years as a MAZZY STAR BAND MEMBER, which was posted as a video on youtube. The interview is 72 minutes long. Interviewer Mikayla Beyer upped it to yt Feb. 7, 2022, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnWBMKcNIsg
On my own yt channel I've uploaded my 8-minute edit of the video, including only the Mazzy Star and Hope Sandoval related portions, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf3-odZHg00
In the interview, Jill spends the first part talking about when she was with Hole and earlier bands. She starts talking about her time with Mazzy Star around the 48 minute mark.
TEXT TRANSCRIPT PASTED BELOW
I made this text transcript to share in fan groups.
JILL JOINED MAZZY STAR as their touring bass player for their 1993-94 tours. She also toured as a band member in 1996-97. She played bass on the Among My Swan Mazzy Star album (released 1996), and on Hope Sandoval & The Warm Inventions' album Bavarian Fruit Bread (released 2001).
Below is You Tube's text transcript yt provides, edited by me (Hermesacat/Bob B.)
You Tube's transcripts have no punctuation, therefore no sentences, and have all lower case letters. And they don't differentiate between different speakers.
I started off editing by doubling column width, punctuating, making sentences, and placing capital letters where needed. But I soon realized it was way too slow a process to edit 70+ mins of interview text in such detail. So, instead, for the rest of the text, I edited with detailed organization only the portions where Jill talks about her time with Mazzy Star and Hope Sandoval & The Warm Inventions. For the other remaining portions, I just separated the interviewer's and Jill's remarks, and corrected words I noticed you tube's transcription got wrong.
Firstly, here's an edit containing text of just the Mazzy Star
and Hope S&TWI related content. Following after it is text of the complete interview (but with Mazzy Star portions removed so my post would fit FB's length limit)
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MIKAYLA: ...do you remember when you heard that he [Kurt Cobain] was gone?
JILL: Yeah, yeah I do. It was like, I was with Mazzy Star and we were
playing in Seattle, and he was supposed to show up to the show and the other two members showed up and I'm like, "Where's Kurt", and they're like, "Uh well, he's supposed to be here." And I guess the next day I think we were driving down the coast, and that's when we heard the news. I think that's when, and we were just shocked and it, it just felt like it was hard to believe, you know, what was going on. It just, everything felt dreamlike, you know. I get into, when you're on tour, everything's moving and it's hard to hold things, you know, yeah, so yeah it was, it was, I guess I would consider it sad, and weird, and strange and, yeah and um-
MIKAYLA: On a better note, how did you join Mazzy Star. I mean, what was the transition from being in Hole to joining Mazzy Star?
JILL: Oh, well, okay, I, well first of all when I was in Hole on
tour, I think we were in Boston, and I, we would stay at people's houses because we didn't really have money yet. And then the woman, she was really cool, she made me a tape of Mazzy Star, and I was like "Oh my God, I love this." It was their first record. I, I said I, and I just kept playing it in the van over and over and over. And so then after the breakup, after I left Hole, I put an ad out in the, I think it was The Recycler, uh, saying: Bass player looking for band, let's see, Marianne Faithfull, Black Sabbath, and Mazzy Star influences. And then they called me and I was just like: Oh my god, are you serious? And they were laughing at the ad they're just like, they're like: Marianne Faithfull but Black Sabbath?
And I'm like: Yeah, trust me, it works. So, I went and tried out at their studio and they they were very opposite people, very quiet, like quiet pin drop, you know. But then when she [I?] got to know them, the whole personalities blossomed, and, and they, they were cool. There was, it was a lot of interesting times and, and Hope was super nice, and so it was good. That, that was a good move for me. It felt really good musically.
[In another interview or quote I saw with Jill somewhere, she was clearer about what she means here when she says Mazzy Star "were very opposite people, very quiet, like quiet pin drop." She said Mazzy Star were opposite to what she'd been used to in Hole because Courtney Love was such a loud and intense personality, whereas Mazzy Star were much more low key and quiet people when she met and worked with them. -BB]...
MIKAYLA: What was it like watching, uh, the writing and participating in the recording of Among My Swan?
JILL: Ah, it was up in Berkeley and, it was good, it was it I, I mean I love recording so that always is a good thing to me. I prefer it over live. I mean live is good but there's something about listening and honing in and layering, and just going: oh my god that's beautiful. So it was nice, I mean, and we got to know each other better. So, we all kind of, um, were, were learning from each other and they, they pretty much let me do what I wanted, to play on, you know, put my bass part. But their songs were definitely structured how they, you know, this is our song, set. I'm like: okay got it, you know and, and just, it was, it was a great experience and I really enjoyed that music so-
MIKAYLA: Nice, and, and then, of course, you went on tour and what was that like, um, basically touring with a band that was signed to a major label as opposed to having been in, um, in more of an independent atmosphere prior to that?
JILL: Yeah, well the only thing I noticed, one thing though for sure is I liked being in a band that liked to work, like, faster, and they worked very methodically and slow. Mazzy Star was too slow for me. I was like: my god come on let's get some, let's work. But they were just slow. But when you talk about the money difference, I don't, I didn't get to know their money. But I did get to know that I got my own room and that was like, that was-. At first it was me and Suki together, and then, then after that they-. I think Suki, I don't know if she left. I'm not sure what happened but I ended up getting my own room. And then there were times where Hope knew I didn't like going on that boat thing 'cause I just, I don't want to be in that body of water. And so she's like: yeah, let's fly. I'm like: okay. I mean it was, I, that never would have happened in any of the bands in the past. It was like, you were lucky to get like a sandwich or something.
MIKAYLA: Okay, and um, so how long were, did you stay with Mazzy Star?
JILL: I stayed with them for their first tour, then the Among My Swan record, and then a tour after that.
[Actually Jill was not with Mazzy Star on their first tour (1990). She joined as a touring band member for their 1993-94 tour, then played bass on the "...Swan" album (released 1996), then toured with them in 1996-97. -BB]
And then it felt like they were breaking up but I wasn't sure, and Hope said-. Well, one night we were, I was driving her home because she stayed in L.A. at a hotel sometimes, and we talked about doing a project on on the side, and that was Hope Sandoval & The Warm Inventions, and that's what I started working on next.
But again the process was so slow. We would go to England for a month and try out musicians. And we'd do it in Berkeley for a month, and L.A., and it was it was really, the process was crazy. And we did some recording, but it was just, you know, again too slow. I'm like: we got-, you know. So, that's kind of what happened after as I, as Mazzy Star. But then they eventually got back together, so-.
MIKAYLA: Okay. Was there a project you were with during those years that best encapsulated what you wanted to do as a musician, what your skill set was and what your point of view was?
JILL: Oh boy, I gotta say it, it kind of, a lot of them had all different elements of relationships and, and each one, no matter how devastating it sounds, I took away something good from so it wasn't all bad. There was some good stuff coming out of it and I learned, I grew as a person and I'm still growing and, uh, so each one had their reasoning behind it, you know, uh, but also there was another band that I was forming. We were called Tear Drain, and we put out, uh, two singles I think and that's while I was in Mazzy Star I was doing that as well. And they were sweet enough to come to one of our shows. We had a show in L.A., just a small show, and and it was, it was, great because it was me and Richard. We were working on songs together and we got along really well, but you know, then you just-, yeah. So, and I also, I loved Mazzy Star but I would like to have been a part of the writing process maybe, but that's, now, mostly everyone's dead, kind of. It's sad, but it happens, well, you know
MIKAYLA: Yeah, unfortunately and that's kind of what, one thing that struck me when you were speaking about that because you seem like such a writer and a collaborator and, um, you know, it was, Mazzy Star was a band where those two people wrote pretty much all of their content
JILL: Yeah, well that's why I always had a band on the side. It was like: okay I'm not going to get my outlet here but I, I'm enjoying this and I love it, but I'm going to also do a band where I can create, and so I always did that. And then even after playing with Hope, I went on to do a couple of other bands where I was, you know, co-writer in both of them. And I was hoping for things to turn out, and they, and they didn't...
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COMPLETE INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT (minus the Mazzy Star portions already posted above)
Jill Emery Interviewed by Mikayla Beyer, on you tube Feb. 7, 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnWBMKcNIsg
[I'd have repeated the Mazzy Star portions below, but due to FB's character limit, FB won't allow a post that long]
. . . . . . . . . .
Hi everybody it's Mikayla Beyer and today i am interviewing an artist named Jill Emery she was the bass player of Hole when they did their first album pretty on the inside, and later she joined Mazzy Star when they were recording Among My Swan, among many other bands and we're going to go over hercareer today, Thank you so much for coming on Jill
JILL: Yeah thanks thanks for having me
MIKAYLA: How are you today?
JILL: Pretty good, yeah. I get up early, like five, and I just start working on stuff and I'm good, good
MIKAYLA: All right, so let's start from the very beginning. Where were you born and raised?
JILL: I was born in Montebello, California and I was raised, pretty much grew up in Diamond Bar. And it was a very dusty town and of course then they built a bunch of homes there. And it's right next to Pomona which was very huge for me and that I met a lot of people out there, yeah, in Claremont.
MIKAYLA: Now, did your interest in music and painting begin at a very early age?
JILL: Um, yeah, I mean I remember I got like an acoustic guitar when I was 10 but I, you know, I wasn't very good at it but I knew I wanted one really bad and then, uh, I always just kind of drew, yeah, I would do drawings and uh, not until I was 15 did all of it start coming together
MIKAYLA: Okay, and were your parents very supportive of that, I mean did they want you to become a professional musician or a professional painter?
JILL: No, no, they, because they didn't picture the professional part, which I didn't either. I mean I didn't picture professional, but um, making a living, no, my mom wanted me to go to school. And my Dad, I think he had, he was already gone when I was, I think he left maybe when I was 11 or 12. Or, I can't remember how old but I had two brothers and I'm in the middle. And uh, so it was my Mom, but she was very supportive even though she didn't-, she wanted me to have something more safe in life, you know?
MIKAYLA: Understandable. Who were some of your favorite musicians growing up?
JILL: Well, that's, that, now that's interesting. I, I feel very lucky because I started off really just into the punk rock scene. Um, it started for me in like 1977 and I, I was lucky because I started driving at 15 and a half and I had a car, so I'd drive to L.A., and go see bands all the time and eventually,like at about 15 and a half, 16, started a band. Yeah, so I mean the bands I liked was like, X, I liked The Runaways, um, uh, all the bands that were local. The Bags, I loved the avengers. Uh, so there was just tons of bands that were great and it felt like Heaven, you know you were just, you couldn't believe what you were stumbling upon. Everybody learning together too, it felt like
MIKAYLA: Wow, that's really cool, So, I, I didn't realize that you actually saw X and The Runaways live when you were growing up?
JILL: Oh my god, if I could, I mean I'm going to sound like some old lady going: "Oh, the good old days," but like, Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Clash, Ramones, Dugod. I mean, and, and like, you know the Whiskey you go, you, do you know the Whiskey? I don't even know if it's still open
MIKAYLA: Yes ma'am, I've been there many times
JILL: Yeah, you've probably seen tons of bands. I mean what would be the biggest band you saw there that maybe has grown since, like, you know that's a pretty nice little intimate space
MIKAYLA: It is, and I've, I've heard stories about what it was like in the heyday. I mean, now they kind of have legacy bands there more, like, like L.A. Guns played there for [inaudible], I believe, and then I think Faster Pussycat was New Year's Day, but oh, okay, yeah, but um, still, I can, I can imagine what it was like during that during the heyday though
JILL: Yeah, like, I mean The Dead Kennedys, uh, Blondie, you just name it, it was great. I mean I don't even know, I just must have been driving the whole time. I was always going out and seeing the bands, and uh but like it seemed like wow i'm really into this you know the runaways they're just playing but it wasn't i didn't really like the content that it it was kind of just not trashy but just not my scene and then as soon as i heard patti smith
maybe i was 16 - 17 i was like now that's like context
and she's just
she's just got this swagger and she's
brilliant and
and she had her band and so that kind of
like started shifting me a bit
nice and that actually leads me to
another question i had like when
you started making music did you
automatically want it to have kind of a
feminist purpose to it and not just be
like i don't want to say noise rock that's
kind of setting but have it
have it have a bit more of a point than
just-
yeah i mean i think so from what i
like the first band
we were called the Asexuals with roz
williams
we met in high school and
he hadn't developed his persona that
became christian death and then steve
darrow who was um
we went on to do The Decadents after
so we were just writing songs
you know you're so plastic slow death
i mean things
feeling constricted in life and being
told i mean like alan watts would say you
know you're told what to do when you're
a baby when you're
you know a kid a teenager and all the
way up to your death and it's
that just didn't feel like something
that makes sense to me i mean we all get
our information you know from different
sources but
i knew i wasn't going to fit into those
programs you know working this job and
getting married having kids none of that
seemed to work
so you were naturally a rebel
just whatever was there it was
there and i wasn't gonna let it stop you
know i was i was like okay this
yeah i mean
and then you say the feminist thing you
know it's interesting because uh ed
colver is putting out a book you know ed
colver he's photographer that's done
amazing uh photos of the punk scene
I've seen a lot of
his work he's wonderful
right oh my god and i always tell people
if you're involved in some kind of new
scene that's just brewing
document it 'cause
people are going to be interested later
but it's i always wish i had documented things
but i you know i was in it i guess i
wasn't thinking about that but um
but i felt like at the beginning i was
around a lot of men or boys or whatever
you and we
they were very open and letting me play
and and i say letting me because i was kind
of learning as as i was going but
since we would write our own songs i
knew where to put my fingers but i
couldn't just whip out someone's song
like hey play that song i'm like i can't
i'm just making up stuff
and then later as that time progressed i
got better and better not i mean i can't
whip out a song probably right now
either but you know
it would take me a while
so
now do you remember the moment where you
first picked up a bass guitar
i do i mean i remember um
getting this
base that was like a telecaster copy and
i think it was a hundred dollars and i
sold my 10 speed to get it
and i was just trying to figure out what to
do and it only had four strings but i
was like you know what is this
and then as you get to meet people um like
roz and steve we would
when you would create a structure of a
song then it just felt normal and you're
like okay i've got something going on
here but if i was just sitting at home
at that time trying to play i was i was
kind of like unsure
okay and um when like so did you
once you kind of had more of a feel for
it did you feel yourself developing as a
songwriter or were you always kind of
as an individual songwriter or did you
always prefer to kind of collaborate
with other musicians while you were
writing
well i liked collaborating but
as as you get into different bands
some people don't want to do that and
that's okay too because they have their
vision
i didn't mind collaborating i didn't
mind writing my own stuff and but thing
is i wasn't a great singer i mean not
even a good one i just it would just
kind of belt it out and let it be what
it was whether it was off or not
but it was always i just wanted to write
words and then so later on and i'm
jumping to but later on after say
mazzy star i was putting well i was
always putting bands together but i was
putting bands together and i would do a
lot of the writing but i would have a
singer
come in and sing the words and then
a lot of times we would collaborate so
yeah
um jumping back to when you finished
high school did you ever attend college
at a certain point um like your mother
wanted or did you-
yeah um actually i tried college for like a
couple courses and then i tried i would hop
around i one was it like at mount sac one was
at citrus college where the teacher
like he gave me an f in art and i'm like
i took one i think it was a
drawing or color class and like you're
giving me an F i show up every time i
don't he's like because you're not
following the rules
you're not following the rules of the
structure of how to learn and i said
okay fair enough and so i was like um
and then maybe one psychology course
because i find that fascinating
at um santa monica college city college
that's about it yeah
okay so describe when you actually moved to
la was it this great magic moment of
knowing that you were going to be part
of this scene or was there a bit of fear
going there you were still quite a young
woman
yeah yeah um i wasn't uh
i don't think i was ever afraid put it
that way and i don't know why but i
wasn't um i
yeah i mean i was already kind of
immersed in going there constantly
and then the band after the Asexuals was The Decadents and
i think i was maybe 17 or 18
and we opened for the dead kennedys in
san francisco and i
and i still to this day don't know how
that i'm sure steve somehow figured it
out but
you know we were doing things here and
there and putting out singles and always
working you know same thing in pomona
and that i didn't touch upon i was
probably in the 15 - 16 year old i met art
de leon
who had a building there i mean who's
who has a building i mean
i didn't understand that but it was
great it was right next to a thrift
store and he would let you play music
there have art shows so i would paint
also so
that's he would like do we we did this
like kind of
this film together where it's just a
short and based on schizophrenia it was
it was fun i just couldn't believe how
i'm so grateful at how many doors were
open um yeah
nice and describe to me what it was
like when you first started recording i
think the first recorded music we have from you is
from The Decadents um where was that your
first time actually in a studio and
and
basically being a recording musician
after you've mostly played live
yeah so i we recorded with steve's dad if i
recall he was
he was a musician a fame i would
consider him a famous musician chris
darrow he he did a lot of work with
i think the nitty-gritty dirtband
linda ronstadt just different people and
he recently died i think it was two
years ago but he was very open and
recording us and just really sweet and
his family were a bunch of artists and
they were just really open so it was i
was like oh out of the suburbs and
claremont and
all those colleges there and i you know
not that college is the answer but it
just felt like it was
blooming with interest and liveliness
nice and
let's see i'm sorry i'm trying it
when
then you joined the super heroines um
what uh what was that like i mean that's
that was much more i feel like your
early work kind of tended to be much
more goth rock than um than what you
later became associated with
yeah it was it was really strange
because
every time i would play those type of
shows i didn't feel
i felt like death was here it wasn't
here so
because i i always was thinking about
death and uh
but i wasn't playing the part the role
it wasn't i wasn't gonna be all dramatic
and black all the time
and i remember seeing eva
for years just wearing black and one day
i saw her wearing this lavender shirt
and i was like god you look really good
like it just frightened even though
she's like
was really happy-go-lucky at the time
kind of uh yeah so it was interesting
and what i liked is it had
besides goth it had more of a black
sabbath edge which i love black sabbath
early sabbath so
nice
that's that's
where it kind of felt good
yeah
cool and um when you were in that scene
were you kind of watching the
inception of the riot girl movement and
grunge uh
as as it developed i mean were you kind
of keeping track of what was going on in
the seattle scene as well and in san
francisco and los angeles
yeah i think let's see
i think being in whole at around that
time it was all happening so you were
aware of the bands we played with a lot
of the bands you know mud honey nirvana
i don't know smashing pumpkins or yeah i
guess i don't know what they are
actually but uh
so we did we were there and playing
at the same time i was in shadow project
which was i guess
courtney threatened someone in this and
i can't remember the story if she
threatened our label or
just said she can't be in both bands
and
i remember i had a show with hole and
then i raced to pomona to play with
shadow project that night
and eventually
i think i went with hole
and then uh
yeah i think that's what happened but we
but we were
but i so i was watching the grunge scene
and i really liked the grunge scene
actually a lot
okay
it felt like home to me you know as far
compared to the goth scene
you know that didn't feel except i
really liked the people i was playing
with and i liked that i got to write
and i and of course i i just totally dug on
that sabbath business that heavy dirgey
but ideologically um did you
automatically feel a connection with
some of the bands that were coming out
of seattle like um did you listen to
bikini kill in their early days or [inaudible]
yeah that seemed like it came later but
yes i like bikini kill
um but if if we were talking the early
grunge days i'm thinking seattle
soundgarden alice in chains nirvana
but but later yeah the the riot grrrl that i
think that came kind of
later okay i think
correct me if i'm wrong i don't know
well it kind of it happened
concurrently but riot grrrl was always so
it was always a bit separate from the
seattle scene too but i feel like i'm
kind of getting getting ahead of myself
i've gotta i've gotta ask you what it
was like in shadow project the the next
band that you were in
okay but i do
understand why bikini kill would kind of
separate because they were unto them
their own which a whole scene went
around that so that made sense why they
were a little bit separate because they
didn't they probably weren't fitting
into this dude grunge thing you know
yeah and they
yeah and they also shunned the idea of
signing to a major label which a lot of
bands in seattle were trying to do i
mean that was kind of i don't want to
say it was the point of their of making
their music but it was certainly a goal
they had and the riot grrrl movement
essentially um instituted a mainstream
media blackout so wow you know there's
not really a way to get mainstream
successful if you do something like that
but yeah but then look you know how
the underground is just gonna they're
like digging for something
deeper than this stuff that's up here
like i want the gold i want to go down
here and you find that stuff and you get
people that are just
they will they will be there for you and
yeah it may not be sold out billion
stadium but who cares you know you get
to do your thing really
exactly
and in that vein um tell me about uh
tell me what it was like joining the
shadow project
well it was interesting because
at the time uh
i think roz and eva had broken up so it
was a little bit turbulent in that
there was still this stuff they had to
process and
so it's it was it was kind of weird but
there i i they felt like home to me in a
way because i've known him forever
so it was it was fun that we
we made an album we
toured the touring was hard um
we got stuck in germany that was
awful i i like germany but it was awful
because we had no money it was like
you're kind of hungry this these people
let us stay in their one room place two
bands and it
it was just frustrating we were just
stuck there because i think the label or
someone didn't send money and it was
ridiculous but i mean
but ross definitely had a following i
mean
it everywhere we went it was like pause
you know it kind of reminded me
i'm not saying eva was iggy but when i
went and saw iggy pop
in the 70s late 70s david bowie was his
keyboardist and
it was iggy's show and it was like bowie
and it's like hey
but and bowie was cool he's like no it's
it's his thing man but it i think eva
felt a bit shunned in it and i'm
guessing i don't know
and
just i love what you said before about
the people that you can find in the
underground scene who aren't necessarily
trying to break it big but just trying
to make their art and find themselves i
mean
yeah that's exciting
yeah i mean was it
and i feel like kind of that's
that i feel like that's sometimes
missing a bit in certain scenes now i
mean what was it like being having that
experience with people just wanting to
create their own
scene and exert their creativity
come what may in their financial future
exactly what you just said it's
basically you're
you're not thinking this i mean we were
all shocked when sonic youth got signed
like i think it was geffen but we
weren't thinking like that it was we
were thinking we're gonna do this and
it's hard work it's hard work you
you pray that three people show up to
your show i mean even with Hole we
would play sometimes to 10 people at one
in the morning it it's just the way it
was uh but
you yeah for me the idea is creating
it's always about creating and if you
stick it out long enough
there will be people that get it
no matter what you do i i think and and
what level you feel comfortable with is
up to you entirely i i don't
i don't think that
i mean i by all means don't have tons of
money i'm very comfortable i'm making a
living as an artist but
even when i was telling the accountant
the other thing he's doing my taxes i'm
like i'm fine with this he's like what
you're fine i'm like i don't need tons
of course i like good food i like you
know i like things but how much do we need i
i like the creating and if money follows
great you know
but the idea was to create
yeah and that's what a wonderful mindset
to have and that's why i'm just
man i love talking to you
i wonder what you were going to say. why
what? you were going to ask about like
what, you wonder what? how bands in
general or'?
well i mean i'm kind of one
what was i gonna ask um just
how um
did did you at any point see a future
for yourself or was it just about being
in the moment and making the most of
what you were creating right then i mean
was there a grand plan
ever at some point or did you just
literally
was it kind of the same mindset you have
now like what i have i'm happy with and
i just want to be the best artist or
musician that i can be
yeah i well yeah i felt
like i wanted to just
be who i was but in the same
time you're involved with a group of
people and i'm kind of even though it seems
like i'm a little bit extrovert i'm a
very quiet introverted person that likes
her home her cats just quiet you know
yeah but when you're in a band which is
fine you you have to learn how to
maneuver in and out of uh personalities
as well as mine i know i have my own
thing going on issues whatever so
yeah you just you just yeah what was
your question?
okay i was gonna say though i know
what you mean it's
sometimes it's a bit of a challenge
being an introvert who genuinely cares
about
what what other people how other people
feel and about making them comfortable
around you you know that's some people
working with you
yeah exactly and
and two thinking about
i don't know honestly i don't know how i
feel about many things i know that i'm
things are changing more than i used to
for instance the word feminism i
a friend
of mine we went this was like probably
eight years ago to downtown la for some
thing called feminist art and there were
speakers talking about feminism
and the art was there and i'm like hey i
want to hear about what feminism is
because i'm a little bit confused
so i feel like
there was a man that got up and spoke
and i feel like he hit
it more accurate for me whatever he
might have said i'd have to ask robin so
i don't even know but uh
at that moment it felt right and so i
kind of think about feminists as
because i am a woman we have it's how
we're all relating because again it
could be a group of men i'll give
you for instance
there's i don't know if you know kevin
morby he kind of sounds a little bit
dylan-ish but he's a young guy
anyway some of the songs are really good
and i like tiny desks so i listen to a
lot of stuff on there and this is old
but there was
there was a woman named meg and she was
playing guitar for him
and it was a four-piece band
and they felt like they were just
universal it didn't feel like male role
role female role it was like she was
just awesome one guitar in in the band
and
and the bass player was really good the
drummer and this and of course kevin
singing and playing and it just felt
like universal and to me that felt like
i'm in here and that's that's good i'm
not me but you know what i mean that
feeling
somehow i strike that with feminism of
just being there and
and and being self-assured and being who
you are without anyone
messing with it you know
yeah basically
it's grounded in acceptance
that yeah and i guess that's what a lot of
women have had to fight for
yes
which is bizarre to me but it's true
and it's true and just if acceptance of
femininity as something to be taken
seriously and respected right alongside
masculinity you know
perfect yeah exactly thank you
all right so
let's get to the
from to the point where you joined
Hole um can you describe the
the moment when you met courtney love
and eric erlandson and caroline rue
yeah yeah so
i think we were at oh what place
was it
i don't know i met them at a i guess a
rehearsal studio
i think it was in silver lake and
i go in there and i wasn't sure what to
expect and it was very abrasive a lot of
yelling
but there was something there that felt
really good it felt it it just
i mean eric was the passive one because
you know so he was more passive and
courtney would tell him what to do play
this play it like fleetwood mac would
but more and then there would be like
okay
and then caroline was just you'll see how
she's very down to earth very calm
except fashion or drums and
and then we all know how courtney is
so something felt right because i like
the idea of all of us being together
and trying to hash out stuff
so i i was like okay i'll see you guys
later i was leaving and then
courtney followed me out to my car kind
of stealth like she was right there and
i'm like hey she's like okay so you're
in our band? and i'm like
oh okay sure and then all of a sudden
like a week or two later
no i don't know how long maybe a month
or two we we got a show or something
very small but we would rehearse a lot
actually and
just try and even if we didn't get to at
a studio we would go to eric's little
studio pad and just try and hash out
songs and
so it was interesting but i knew it felt
good
right at the beginning and then you know
yeah so you had an automatic chemistry
together as musicians
yeah yeah
and um i've and of course
everyone that i talked to seems to have
an opinion about courtney love but
did you sense right from early on that
she was a front woman and a songwriter
that stood out among the rest
well what i what i do give her kudos
all the time for is her drive is
crazy it's like she
we probably wouldn't have gotten
anywhere i don't care how good or how
bad we were or what we were saying if it
wasn't for her drive she was just
this this this i'm gonna go strip right
now i'll be back here's a little bit of
money here we go let's do this so
she had a great drive
and go get her is that the word i don't
know but
nothing was gonna stop her and she would
chant it was very much chanting to get
into this and so
that that's the part i really
appreciated and we had a few fun times
where like we would have
good laughs there would be some sense of
humor but
you know as things progress money gets
involved managers lawyers
and then having the turbulent
aggressiveness is really hard for me
because i
i felt like and caroline can correct me
if i'm wrong but i felt like
they were kind of
picked on her and i didn't like that i
really i can't
stand there and watch someone being
i don't know if the words bullied but i
i just it wasn't right and and then
soon after that
that's when courtney and i would start
bucking heads because she wasn't putting
me down she
but then we would just buck heads
um and what are you gonna do it happens and
i don't like being in that position i
wish it could have been better but it's
okay it worked out
for how it was supposed to you know
yeah
and it worked out for um the recording
of pretty on the inside which is an
album that has not only stood the test
of time but it also got some acclaim in
its state um i know that elizabeth wurtsell
actually declared it album of the
year
wow that's amazing that that record is i
mean there's some songs on there that i
i love and they're the obvious ones but
i mean it's it's a very
hard listening record you have to be in
this certain frame of mind but it also
can kick your ass like oh okay and and
you know but it's it's hard when you
listen to that
yeah i know that courtney actually
described it as unlistenable for quite
some time i mean she was recently kind
of yeah i mean she's recently come
around to it a bit and understandably i
mean i
i think it's wonderful and and and
you're right i mean i understand why
it's not for everybody in in whatever
mood they're in but still what a what a
great piece of aggression
oh yeah when
you think about the time that it came
out totally totally like
clouds was great pretty pretty on the
inside just that little snippet was just
when that would come on it was you just
knew something was happening you know
you could feel it
so it was it was that was great yeah
definitely
and i'm kind of curious um did you guys
go on a tour before you recorded it and
then um work on the songwriting while
you were on that tour and then go into
the studio
i think i'm guessing we did a
tour of west coast maybe
uh app because we did a
single girl yes and i think we
toured on that just a mini tour
and i can remember when we made it to
seattle we
because i think so pop we were talking
to them and
so i do remember and i think that's all
we had at the time was the single
okay
and um then i guess were um
like what was the i mean would you mind
if we went through each song where i
kind of got the story behind writing it
and-
i probably couldn't remember but i can
remember the process um
the process would be more like
if someone has a piece we would just
start jamming on it like say if i had a
baseline and i just start
and then everyone starts immersing in it
and and then once people start getting
it or feeling it then we start
structuring it more like
verse, no intro-verse, maybe a chorus first
whatever that type of thing and maybe
courtney brought in a piece and we would
all do it same thing uh eric you know
and probably caroline would start with a
drum beat the great thing about that is that
we all
because we were all writing and all
there at the beginning we split our
royalties at first except
and i'm sorry i
kind of tried to now this is where i'm
like where's where's like sisterhood
where's feminism we go into the
law office lawyer's office and another
woman rosemary carol which is
that's fine that's all cool but they
were trying to like have me and caroline
accept lower
and i'm like absolutely not i'm here i'm
doing it and
i'm co-writer i am not taking lower
and
i think they just needled caroline lower
i mean you can have i don't even know if
she want to talk about it but that's not
okay i mean listen i'm not looking for a
lot of money but i am looking for money
that's
supposed to come to me from my work you
know
yeah and that's completely valid
like yeah
yeah especially if it was a
collaborative songwriting experience it
kind of sounds like nobody like brought
it it wasn't really a situation where
people would bring in a song and then
tell everybody okay this is the
structure this is what we're going to do
it was truly a collaborative songwriting
experience
definitely it was definitely
like that in that record
and but like later even they took the
song violet which i was co-writing and
didn't give me any credit and it went on
to the next record and made probably a
pretty good amount
but i was just like that is not cool but
all right okay it's over and that
money's gone and i do my own thing
but that's what that's where music just
bums me out is all of that you know you
can you wonder
you can hear it from bands like maybe L7
not about in fighting but just money and
even the super heroines
i think we got like
tacos or something and that was the
payment for a record you know and i
and to this day when they're putting out
more vinyl i'm like hey
where's that money going they're like oh
eva sold
she sold the publishing to us or the
rights and i'm like wow really without
even though i wrote half those songs
so that's how this business is can be
you you don't know and she was like you
know i don't know it's just
it's a bummer so yeah
yeah i guess that's what happens when it
turns into a business rather than a
creative experience you know
absolutely
absolutely and that's why later on when
i was trying to do bands
i would say we're all in it we're all in
it maybe we're writing but you guys are
going to get 25%
now some people think that might be
crazy but i think pearl jam did that but
that's the way you keep people around
you keep them happy they're making some
money
now we didn't end up making money in
both of those bands because
it just kind of folded but
that was the intention when we were
meeting with people anyway so yeah
so are there i mean you've mentioned a
couple of tracks that you loved already
but are there any other tracks that just
stand out as some favorites of yours
that you just love and remember with
and feel great pride in with Hole
i love drown soda i think that's on i
don't know if it's on an ep or another
single but i love that song
that was that was really fun i think we
even recorded in new york
unsure i'm you know not sure about that
but
that was kind of i i liked that i'd like
to go into that mode and then instead i
think courtney was like we want to be
pop we want to be this and i said
pop doesn't fit your persona it's
it's going to be glaringly obvious now
that's just me saying that i i'm totally
could be wrong but in my mind because
i've seen where we come from polishing
up a stone like that but it's good to
change though don't get i think you
should it is healthy to change you know
but
when she kept saying pop i couldn't
i was like i don't get this i got i
first of all it's too turbulent i gotta
leave
and so that was our last show or my last
show with them was at the whiskey
oh
i don't remember what year that was
93 or i don't know
yeah because i think um
uh i can probably establish the timeline
was she already married to kurt cobain
when um when you quit the van or when
you quit the band or was that something
that happened later on
well i know it
was already happening because we were on
tour and all the love
notes and letters and stories and
her awareness
his sweater so it was already happening
but i can't tell how far it was i can't
remember
okay yeah i'm yeah because i i tried to
find the exact date as well but it just
it hasn't been
well documented yet hopefully it will be
a little bit better documented now with
the with the interviews that we're doing
but i think caroline has a good-. you're
going to interview her right
yes ma'am
she might might have a good memory
okay
so she she might be able to help you out
yeah
okay
but um i think you've kind of already
described where um where
uh you guys differed on musical
direction but i want to go back to a
minute to um actually recording pretty
on the inside okay what was it like
working with kim gordon as your producer
oh boy um
well i wanted to relate to her really
good because we're both tauruses
so it kind of felt like
we were
kind of like that kind of grounded kind
of down to earth whatever but um
man it was hard though because it was
very turbulent while recording and i
know i keep using that word a lot but i
don't know what other word to describe
it just a lot of yelling like if say if
you have a dog or a cat
and you're yelling they don't like that
they not yelling even at them they just
don't like well maybe that's me maybe
i'm the dog and cat i don't know
but i think kim kim oh boy
because didn't they did yeah anyway
she i thought she was i i wanted to
reason with her but there was so much
going on
that i think she was just trying to hold
on and get things happening and then don
fleming was there as well he was a part
of it and
there was one point where i was like kim
you're a bass player my bass needs to be
louder come on it's buried so
i was not having it and then i i think i
left after that and she was
a big enough person to call me and say
you know what that's cool you're right
we're gonna fix it and she was totally i
thought she was i mean i liked her you
know i mean i thought it was good but
again i think it did i don't
yeah i think it was a good experience
and and i think it was a good experience
for her as well to kind of see a
different
style i don't think sonic youth
was like that at all i think they were
very
i don't know how they were i met them
but i don't know exactly how they were
in the studio but i don't think they
were like this
i think in one part if
yeah yeah you can you can tell the
difference
yeah yeah and was it a major
coup to get her because i know that
sonic youth had a lot of respect in the
underground music community and to a
point even in the mainstream music
community at that time
yeah it was i mean
god kim gordon sonic youth yeah that was
and that was courtney i mean she
she's very driven so she knew him get
kim and and it was good for kim because
kim probably went on to do more so it
kind of got her feet into hey yeah i
could do this
and then you take something good from an
experience
and move on whether it worked or not and
that's okay so i'm i'm guessing it was
kind of like that
in in the Hole everybody got what they
wanted that's that's what it seemed like
yeah and and i know what you were saying
i i relate to what you were saying
before about
even if the screaming is not in your
direction it can still be very
unpleasant to be around and very hard to
work around as well
and-
yeah your adrenals get spent you're
just like uh like ptsd you know
yeah and um one thing that i was going
to ask about too is
the recording process of
of the band i mean is it true that
courtney would actually gargle whiskey
to give an edge to her vocals before she
would ever record her part
i you know
i don't remember her doing that but i
i don't think she has trouble to get it
like that in the first place i think she
has that rasp already it's you can hear
in her voice when she talks you know
so i don't remember the whiskey part but
i wouldn't you know okay
how did your artwork end up on the back
of pretty on the inside
um well i think courtney said do you
want to contribute some art to it and
i'm like heck yeah yeah
so she said okay well this will be the
title from the song and i said okay so i
went and worked on two pieces
and i brought both of them into a
rehearsal and they picked the one that
that's on the back of it
and had um had you been doing any
artwork for the band prior to that i
mean did you do flyers or a fanzine or
anything like that
um i think i would do some flyers but
mostly courtney was doing them okay and
uh but i had been doing art but not
faithfully like i am now because i was
always trying to do music but i would
still do art and so yeah
that was that was the brunt i think of
the art right there of just on that
record
as far as the songs that wound up on um
live through this rather than on pretty
on the inside are there any besides
violet that you uh helped co-write as
well
well i felt like doll parts too but
she she's just like nope i'm like okay
really
yeah we were doing those songs like
full-on in
in my in the incarnation i was in but
yeah but you know
it's okay i mean i'm not i'm not the
only person this has happened to so i
just you know
yeah and um as far as when you um decided
that you were gonna leave Hole uh do
you remember uh what that moment was
like i mean was it just a moment of
relief because you kind of came to the
decision or was there a bit of a a bit
of a sad moment because it sounds like
you genuinely liked the music whatever
whatever else was happening in the
situation
oh you're right it's it's
first of all music was my identity it's
been my identity
almost my whole life that i played it
was just that was my identity so
it was but it again you know
i was so angry at the whole situation
that i can remember my friend lindsey
bryce took the best picture of that show
and i had
i felt like i was wearing this dress
that looked like i came out of an asylum
just very
you know and then i had my that sleep
patch um from the plane and i wore it on
my head my head was shaved because i was
i there had been a fight in scotland
between me and her and i and i wanted to
shed everything so i had um
the girl in daisy chainsaw
shaved my head because hers was shaved
i'm like oh shave mine so
that picture just i had my back to them
the whole time when i played that set i
was under contract where i had to play it
and i think it was with the smashing
pumpkins but i'm not sure but it so
yeah i was mad and angry but at the same
time i was sad to leave
something behind but i was ready to move
on and i'm the type that you know i'm
not i'm not a go-getter like courtney
but i don't give up either i i
i keep looking to
figure out new things to do or play or
join or what whatever you know
yeah
so it was bittersweet like you said
okay and um this next part if you don't
want to talk too much about this i
completely understand but
as a fan and a follower of that movement
i'm kind of wondering uh
what it was like getting to know kurt
cobain
well he well unfortunately i mean everybody
knows he was on drugs so
it was hard to get to know him we would
be doing sound check together you know
doing this and that
and i mean i hung out with krist,
the bass player he was
more just like really nice guy wanted to
hang out
and um same thing with dave dave was a
drummer and dave was while in nirvana
and everything was going great for them
he was like i just want to be in my own
band and i'm like okay and and he's just
like i have my own band and i i'm like
oh you do and he's like yeah i want to
write the songs i'm like i understand
george harrison i get it okay
so you know but but kurt was like
high he was really high he'd be
bundled in the corner and
you know courtney was getting into it
and that would kind of lead your
you change when you're on heroin you i
mean i'm sure it feels great but
you just check out and or you you could
get lovey or you could get aggravated
really quick so who knew
i mean we only had a little bit of
interactions because of that and
because she was enveloped in him as well
so you can-
MIKAYLA: yeah and of course um his [Kurt Cobain's] death kind of heralded
the end of um of the Seattle sound movement and grunge, and to a point
Riot Grrrl as well. Or, um, what was it like when, again and you
don't have to talk about this too much, if you don't want to but
um, do you remember when you heard that he was gone?
JILL: Yeah, yeah I do. It was like, I was with Mazzy Star....[see beginning of post for complete Mazzy Star portions edited out here -BB]
you know i this is a bit of a tangent
but since you mentioned mary on faithful
um have you ever heard her cover of john
lennon's working class hero
yes yes yeah isn't it amazing and i love the
baseline on that too oh my god really
good that and you know who else i think did
it which is a surprise um cindy lauper
but it's really good
because it takes her out of her like
girls just want to have fun and she and
it gets heavier and it's great
i'll have to listen to that i haven't
heard her version that's really cool
that's such a great song i mean
yeah yeah it is one of my favorites of-
[some Mazzy Star portions are edited out here. Find them at the beginning of this post -BB]
MIKAYLA: ... Mazzy Star was a band where those two people wrote pretty much all of their content
JILL: Yeah, well that's why I always had a band on the side. It was
like: okay I'm not going to get my outlet here but I, I'm
enjoying this and I love it, but I'm going to also do a band where I
can create, and so I always did that. And then even after
playing with Hope, I went on to do a couple of other bands where I
was, you know, co-writer in both of them. And I was hoping for things to turn out, and they, and they didn't.
I mean, every time I talk to people like: was it
the singer? i'm like yeah, but you know what can you do it was
you know there's always this crazy side to them i don't know if
singers are ever normal sorry singers but are they ever just normal
it's like having friends but to me like
friends i mean as my partner says well
you want someone that's gonna elevate
you not put you down here so i'm like
yeah you're totally right i know so
that's kind of what i would want or if i
ever had a commune with you know where
we all live together i want us to all
but everyone's like you're just dreaming
no one works like that i'm like okay
so yeah
yeah i mean that's one thing that i find
a bit conflicting in courtney love
frankly i mean as much as of a fan of
hers as i am and as much as i love her
writing there is this feeling i get from
having spoken with people who worked
with her that
even though she believes in women
empowerment and she believes in feminism
and she's very assertive about herself
in that way
there is a bit of a disconnect because
it what just in the from
things i've heard she wasn't as much
into she wasn't as
committed to elevating the people around
her and the
the women in this movement and in her
bands around her as
perhaps as perhaps she should have been
you know
yeah i'm guessing it was
something in her childhood man that just
made her just
and and she she couldn't step outside of
it and witness it and and you know and
i'm sure we had some fun times at the
beginning but because it wasn't we
weren't on tour and stuck in a van and
this and that but you know and and
but she's very methodical and driven and
that's okay i've watched fans do
that and they
half the time they succeed and if that's
how you want to succeed then then so be
it you know yeah
yeah and and again like i i genuinely
admire her and i love her work so i
don't-
I understand that totally i gotcha
yeah but speaking of not remembering things
uh i asked okay you always for some
reason are bringing up izzy
and i understand that
is it but i have an izzy story for you
and i couldn't remember it so i had to
ask steve and so i'll have to read what
he said it's only that long
okay
i said steve what happened remember
we met we were working did this thing
with izzy and and so he goes
uh let's see here what did he say
no okay
right here
he said okay now i'm sorry he didn't say
it all perfect okay so yes there was a
connection with izzy there was a cheap
horror movie being filmed around
1985-ish it might have been called hard
rock zombies
janet cunningham and she i don't know if
you've ever heard her name but she was
the casting agent for all the punk
rockers and and then soon after the
rockers
okay
she died
not too i'm not sure how long ago
actually
but she got us a lot of made it you know
work for being an extra
and he said janet cunningham was casting
and they were looking for a full five
piece rock metal band to be in the movie
also acting speaking etc
she asked if i had a band and i said
yeah sure
so i called four other people i knew as
soon as possible and you were one of
them it was me
you izzy axl rose and one other
long-haired friend that was hanging
around at axl's pad
we went auditioned for the directors and
janet had to read lines and do a scene
from the script as far as i remember
just axl and me read but you all
reacted
and had to be like a silly rock band
no music or guitars just looking like a
band we obviously didn't get the part
that was the izzy story because i
remember meeting him and i was you know
i was like he's the classy one like i
don't know why
i think because he's more like a rolling
stone than uh
i don't know i don't know
oh my gosh i love that story
but thank you for telling that that is
something yeah man yeah i
um what have you been up to since you
left mazzy star i mean i know that you uh
talked about tear drain but um
what other um-
yeah i mean i did recordings with the
the two bands that i
that i was trying to get going and uh
and that's as far as it went we maybe
played a couple live shows and after
that i i just said you know what i'm i
don't
i never thought i would stop playing
music never like even
when i moved out out here i jammed with
some friends and i thought well maybe
we'll get a band and it was like no no
i just i mean if someone wanted to
record i would be all over that that's
cool because it's just
you're in there you're listening it's
not a lot more than your focus so
that but i can't imagine trying to put a
band together ever again it's
too much heartache too much
drama uh i so i find
that painting like doing my art has been
extremely cathartic
uh i i get to be quiet if i want to
crank some music i can crank music and
focus
i get to think a lot go inside go
outside and daydream so it's it's a
great avenue for me uh
and a lot of times i'll do musicians too
just because
like it makes me laugh doing you know
whether it was joy division or bill
callahan who i love uh it just
it's fun but i don't even know you know
i didn't yeah who knows
yep and you're a very
prolific painter as well i mean i love
seeing your paintings on social media
and um
just uh one thing i'm curious about is
um do you
kind of plan out your paintings a lot in
advance or is it very important like
something that you do on impulse just
you sit in front of a canvas and say-
yeah no, you know it's both because sometimes
i'll just put like so much paint on and
then leave some negative space here and
there and i'll look at it look at it for
a long time and go okay i see this and
it kind of like those ink blot things and
so i start creating an image around it
or in it
or sometimes like for the bands
uh or
you know even when i did you know a
philosopher type series you know like
the alan watts i would
look at pictures of them and take pieces
of it and and make a conglomerate you
know like i had alan watts with alice
coltrane together
and like she's weaving these strings of
words and he's just looking at her with
a pipe like
like they're talking through
music or ideas and so i like to daydream
within the picture you know making up
scenarios that may not be true i could
sit here and laugh you know
because when did alan watts and
coltrane alice coltrane ever get
together and do that it's funny or bob
dylan like
being challenged by a cat um
well you know t.s. eliot's cat of all
cats and
while he's sipping coffee and smoking
cigarettes and the cat's just like i
don't know about that and and he's like
what the cat's thinking this about me
and it's funny you know it's
so
that i can do musicians i love too like
patti smith it's
it's great but also but those are the
ones when their
portraits all kind of zone in on
a person's picture and then take from
different pictures and create one image
nice all right cool
do any of your paintings come from
dreams or nightmares
um i would say more
somewhere in the waking time of
daydreaming so it's
not not much on the nightmare or dreams
but definitely daydreaming a lot
and um what music do you listen to while
you paint
oh god all kinds of stuff um
i i listen to a lot of tiny desk because
i love the bands stripped down
and um the k-e-x-
uh k-e-y-q
which one is it k-e-x-p
from seattle they have bands live in
their studio i mean i know they do down
here as well but
it's so fun to watch them in that right
there it's it's not a video of them like
posing it's them playing like i like
courtney barnett big thief um i mean
those are all the heavy hitters
like i loved i found sharon van etten
years ago on tiny desk and that's i
loved her it was just her and this girl
and i don't know her name singing backup
it was great it was so stripped down and
then she got more famous and then
started adding some like little
electronic things which i didn't care
for i'm more of a purist
like i love piano but i don't like the
"meep meep meep"
you know so
yeah but i still she's putting out good
stuff too and
just uh bill callahan
i loved uh the silver jews i listen to
that
there's just all kinds of stuff jazz i
like jazz too
cool and um
do you still have a relationship with
courtney love eric erlandson or caroline rue
caroline and i just sometimes on on
social media or whatever sometimes here
and there um
eric no but i did see eric and it was
all like
i i could have been like a mad person
but i wasn't i was like hey eric how's
it going what's going on
and so it was all okay and if i saw
courtney today same thing but i no i
don't speak to i don't we don't have that
thing going on now
okay and what plans do you have for the
future
i think this is it i mean this is my
future right here and then i don't
you know i always say i want to commune
but
no one wants to give up their their real
complete comforts so they're like no i'm
fine
but i don't know i don't really i truly
don't
think about the future it's it's
it's pretty much right here and
that's why sometimes i don't know if
tomorrow's saturday or
sunday or you know except today i made a
note i was like 10 o'clock don't forget
so
but why what's your do you know what
your future what your plans are oh to
get izzy interview
yeah and and to just
be a fabulous interviewer in the
meantime i mean we were talking earlier
about um
you know even though izzy is a bucket
list i mean all the other interviews i'm
doing means so much to me and i want to
record the story of rock and roll and
not just the front men in the front
women of rock and roll either you know i
feel like we get such a great sense of
what these various scenes were like in
seattle and los angeles and london and
wherever else by talking to people who
were basically were enjoying all the
other bands at the same time and you
know you don't have to be the lead
singer or guitarist in order to be a
great musician and to have a great
appreciation of the world around you you
know
absolutely i mean i could just zone
in on drummers when they're good i'm
like
holy cow man they are so good they know
how to finesse and go in and out and
just or when musicians all get together
and it just really is just oh that's the
best feeling you know
yeah
when you're hitting it all together
i can imagine the jazz days must have
been like that eh
you just walk in with your horn hey i'm
gonna play and then boom you got things
going on but yeah yeah that's a good
that's a good future for you because also
i've seen people interview
and some people
there there's there's an art to it you
know because you have to take a pause
but you also have to
put your some people don't agree with
that but i think putting yourself in
there is important because it's a part
of a communication
so yeah and and to a point like also reading
people is part of the art of it as well
like knowing how to
draw a good story out of them and how to
make them comfortable talking with you
so i really
you know no one's ever ever perfect i'm
but i'm trying to get as good as i
can be and you know if i interview izzy
at some point great but if not yeah well
yeah no in the meantime you just do your
thing and you you it's all about your
process as well and then izzy maybe
maybe not but there will be others tons
tons of people out there
yeah and i want to write i want to write
scripts i want to write books just all
right
great
yeah i feel like we both got a good
future ahead of us
yeah
yeah alrighty
thank you so much for appearing on my
show jill
jill emery has an exhibition of her work
alongside a couple of other artists at
pilates and arts on 29 palms highway on
february 12th and she plans to continue
exhibiting her artwork in the future
thanks again jill and thank you
everybody for watching
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