That Way Again

[Rossetti1828]

Hello, I'm new to this board but have been a huge fan since I bought "So Tonight..." in 1993.

Very excited about the new EP, and the inclusion of "That Way Again". I see comments here that it was played on tour in 2000, but it's an older song than that... As a small contribution to this board, here's a photo of my gig setlist that I got at the Astoria theatre in London on 19th June 1994:

DSC04245.JPG (172.35 KiB) Viewed 27418 times

[Hermesacat]

Rossetti1828 Many thanks for sharing your photo of the set list used on stage at the 1994 London show you attended, and for pointing out the set list shows the song "That Way Again" is even older than I knew. I knew of its existence only from a couple of live show recordings from their 2000 tour, a tour on which Mazzy Star performed many then unreleased songs. Some of those ones later got belated studio releases in 2011, 2013, and 2014.

The band has announced the song "That Way Again" is to be included on the 4-song e.p. "Still" out June 1, 2018.
You can hear two live recordings of the song from 2000 (Copenhagen and Oslo) at youtube where I've upped them, here: https://youtu.be/MPBkFUibx7Y and here:
https://youtu.be/yMjxcNUTFmE

Your set list lists a second unreleased song shown there as "Train," a song they used to play fairly often in the 1990s but has which has never yet been released. It's typically been known among live show collectors as either "Leaving on a Train" or "Let That Be." I wasn't sure its true title. Those may have both been tentative titles placed on it by collectors. Thanks to your set list we know the word "Train," at least, is in its true title.

Those two (entire) shows from 2000 are findable in the Boots list with Download links thread at this site.

[Rossetti1828]

Hi, thanks for all that info. Yes, I had heard various bootleg recordings on YouTube before. I didn't realise that "Train"'s title was uncertain, so I'm glad that my photo has been a little bit helpful in that way too!

[Hermesacat]

Rossetti1828: Thanks again.

Since you're a new member, I'll mention you'll notice this fan site is pretty quiet most of the time these days as far as discussion by fans in threads goes. In fact, it's quieter than ever now, unfortunately. But there's a popular Facebook fan Group here https://www.facebook.com/groups/6071129794/
that's the polar opposite of this one as it currently has 3,300+ members, and is hoppin' with activity and posts from fans. They made me the fifth administrator there (as if 4 weren't enough already) just 'cause I've been such a dedicated contributor of content (same stuff as I post here). Some members of this mazzystar.free.fr fan site have gone over to the FB Group and don't come here as often. Despite the bad press Facebook's been receiving, FB appears to be the most popular place for fan groups in general.

Even if it's becoming more of an archive and information resource than anything else, this mazzystar.free.fr site remains valuable, imo, and we should be grateful to webmaster Emma (who herself has become far too quiet at the site) for continuing it. This site is much more useful as a resource than FB as it has threads organized by topic whereas the FB site is just one long thread of random posts. Also, material here can be found via Google Search, plus archive.org takes snapshots of the site periodically for permanent archiving, which means material found here may turn out to be available "forever"! In contrast, the FB Group is a closed group (I'd prefer it be a public group instead) which means you have join before you can view its content. This also means Google Search can't find stuff there, and the FB Group posts don't get archived by archive.org.

Also, many people don't like Facebook (for perhaps good reason), so it's good there's an alternative fan site here for fans who prefer to avoid Facebook.

[MikeRMD]

Hey all,

Hermesacat once penned a thought about what was still out there waiting for someone to either share what they knew they had or find something they didn't know was of interest to others but was and here we learn that the song most of us had only heard from the 'Loppen' show in 2000 had been played at least once ~6 years earlier. Mazzy Star were good about playing live virtually every one of their songs at some point, even if they weren't prolific in either the length of their tours or sets. I'll have more to say about the 'Loppen' show in the post about the new EP. As far as the title of the song 'Train' on the set list kindly provided by Rossetti1828 it could be just 'Train' or 'Leaving on a Train' as the song titles on the set list were quite often abbreviated. I would have preferred the title to be 'Let That Be' as it more accurately defines the emotion of the song but perhaps the band didn't want to be accused of copping the Beatles title. The fact is that both songs are great. 'Let That Be' has some of Hope's most searing lyrics, and she does not hold back. I remember the first time I heard that song and went "Whoa". Couldn't quite believe what I was hearing. Those in the know at the old BLVD said it was in rebuttal to something Anthony K of the RHCP's had said or written about his time with Hope.

Cheers

[Hermesacat]

Hi Mike, glad to see you back.

The first show I heard with the "Train" song (what ever its exact title is. We do know the word "train" is in it now) was the 2000 Copenhagen show. My (wrong) guess then was the lyrics (I agree they're intense lyrics) might have been referring to her break up with William Reid. Later, I realized that theory couldn't work as the song's much older and probably predates their relationship.

Re. Anthony Kiedis of the Chili Peppers, although we know he wrote appreciatively about Hope's music in the Chili Peppers' song "Aeroplane," I only recall encountering one online reference to their supposed romance, at "Chikipedia" site. And even there, there were no details offered. They simply included his name in their "Hookups" section re. Hope. Unfortunately, I helped spread that rumour, posting about it online in various places, but it turns out it's apparently false.

Someone I'd describe as a credible source, i.e. someone in a position to know, has said with certainty that in fact Hope & Kiedis never dated. Kieidis wrote about Hope's music in his song, but there was never any romance, apparently. Perhaps some people may have assumed otherwise, based on the song.

Another false report, rumour, or speculation about Mazzy Star is the suggestion one occasionally encountered in older articles, etc., of supposed heroin use by band members. Someone who saw a lot of their 1990s shows told me he'd witnessed band members "nodding out" on stage more than once. He said it was really obvious at one gig in particular. The suggestion was heroin drowsiness was visibly affecting band members (he didn't say which ones) on stage. I've seen claims by others in print that band members were supposedly heroin users. Plus a number of journalists over the years have referred to Mazzy Star's music as having morphine, opium, or heroin-like qualities or effects. Some may have suspected Mazzy Star's so-called "heroin music" must most likely have been created by
the band's own supposed "heroin use"! Thus more rumours being mongered.

But the reliable source says, with certainty, heroin was never a presence within the band, and none of them were ever users. Instead, the informant says wine was/is the main drug of choice of the whole band (and not just Hope who always has a glass of wine at her elbow on stage nowadays). The informant is sure any incidents of band members appearing to "nod out" on stage would have been due to over-imbibing wine, plus possible fatigue from touring -- but with opiates/opioids definitely not involved.

[Emma]

I see comments here that it was played on tour in 2000, but it's an older song than that... As a small contribution to this board, here's a photo of my gig setlist that I got at the Astoria theatre in London on 19th June 1994:

Thanks for posting the set list. I didn't know that That Way Again had been performed during their 1994 tour. I attended the Paris show on 24th June 1994 at the Arapaho and they did not play that song; the set list was a bit different and the only unreleased song they played that night was "Leaving on a Train".

Here's a journalist's REVIEW of Mazzy Star's "STILL" E.P., out officially June 1.

Thanks for posting the Soundlab review of the new E.P.
I wonder if they kept the harmonica lines in the studio version of "That Way Again". The Soundlab journalist did not mention any harmonica parts in his review of the track.

[Hermesacat]

Three 1990s SET LISTS used by Mazzy Star on stage, set lists that have particularly valuable info on them - well, valuable to fans who happen to be info buffs, at least! Recently, I discovered or re-discovered photos of this Belgium show set list used on stage, plus a poster from the same Antwerp, Belgium show, June 22, 1994 at a venue called Pacific (both photos attached here).

The two photos from the Belgium show had been hiding for years in a folder placed inside another folder on my computer containing a bootleg audio recording of that same 1994 Belgium show. The poster is not the most attractive Mazzy poster ever, imo, but it's an unusual one, at least, one I don't recall seeing before.

The set list used on stage in Belgium, June 1994, besides being an interesting collectible, also yields useful info about unreleased songs' titles and song performance history - details that interest a band history and trivia buff like me (though perhaps not everyone else)! I was very pleased to come across these two items. They complement and confirm info found on mazzystar.free.fr member Rossetti1828's 1994 London show set list he kindly shared his photo of earlier.

The Belgium set list is very similar to another one from a London show of three days earlier (June 19, 1994) that surfaced. The person [mazzystar.free.fr member Rossetti1828] who salvaged it from the London stage (Astoria Theatre) at the show in 1994 posted a photo of it in this thread above. I've re-posted a brightened version of his same photo here below. These two 1994 set lists look like they were both made by the same person, which would be someone in, or associated with, the band.

Among other things, these two 1994 set lists prove the song "That Way Again," which appeared on Mazzy Star's 2018 "Still" e.p. release is a song the band was already playing live 24 years earlier in 1994. Another belated release of an older Mazzy Star song! There have been a lot of those since 2011. The band didn't actually play "That Way Again" at that Belgium show. They ended up playing a different encore than the one the set list showed they'd planned. The earliest recordings of that song I've heard are two recordings from the 2000 tour.

These Belgian and London set lists from June 1994 are also both helpful in ID-ing the correct title for "Leaving on a Train," a still unreleased song the band played often live in the 1990s. Both set lists show "Train" as a song. Since these 1994 set lists use short forms for many songs listed, it may be likely "Leaving On a Train" is the song's full title. That's the title many bootleg recording track listings use for it. The set lists also prove another title sometimes used for the "Train" song, "Let That Be," is not its true title.

Another informative set list is one a Facebook fan Group member Roman Tatus salvaged from a stage in 1990 and shared in the group two years ago, a set list he said was used by Hope on stage at a Chicago Mazzy Star show he attended at The Cabaret Metro club, August 18, 1990 (photo attached below. i've previous;y shared it here at mazzstar.free.fr in another thread). And it looks like it's in Hope's handwriting, judging by the way capital "H" is written a few times, same "H" as one can see in some of her autographs.

Roman Tatus shared photos of both sides of that 1990 Chicago set list. The other side shows the printed club schedule listing bands playing there and dates. Roman said the club had such flyers available at the club, ones people could take home. Hope may have grabbed one to use to write her set list on.

The 1990 Chicago set list shows songs titled "When You Were Young," "Candle," and "Walk in Dark." By cross-referencing those set list titles to corresponding lyrics I'd transcribed from live recordings, I was able to ascertain correct titles to several (still) unreleased songs where true titles had previously been unknown or uncertain.

The first line Hope sings in one unreleased 1990 era song is "Hold a candle to my face, I just want to see the light." Evidently that must be the song the set list has as "Candle" (an unreleased 1990 era song typically mis-titled "It's a Shame")!

Another 1990 era song has Hope singing the line "You walk with your eyes closed to me." Surely, that must be the song the 1990 set list has as "Walk in Dark." And "When you were young" is a line from another unreleased 1990 era song. So, thanks to the 1990 Chicago set list we now know that's that song's true title too.

Having small mysteries like these solved is one of the small pleasures I enjoy as a Mazzy Star fan! I'm sure a lot of other fans couldn't care less about such details, but I am (and hopefully some others are) entertained by them.

All the unreleased Mazzy Star songs I know of we have live recordings of I've upped to my Hermesacat youtube Channel, individually, plus there's a compilation of them all I assembled. It's here: https://youtu.be/4Pc_v3DPGoQ .it's also findable in the boots list here at mazzystar.free.fr.

Set list used on stage at Mazzy Star's 1994-06-22 Antwerp, Belgium show:



Set list used on stage at Mazzy Star's 1994-06-19 London shiw. It's mazzystar.free.fr member Rossetti1828's photo i've brightened:



Set List (both sides of the paper) used on stage by Hope at Mazzy Star's 1990-08-18 Chicago show:


Poster from Mazzy Star's 1994-06-22 Antwerp, Belgium show: